This entry was kindly contributed by a member of the Talking Property community. If you are interested in contributing an article that would be of interest to our readers then please contact us.

Those who have children and have renovated with them on site, will know how much of a learning experience it can be, not only for them but also for you as parents ! Kids love the experience. There is so much for them to explore, watch, people to talk to, things to learn, it’s like a huge playground. They love it. They are in their element. Well, all this depends on the child of course…sometimes they love it for an hour or so then spend the next several hours asking to go home !

Those of you who read my previous article will know all about the excuses that people come up with to avoid taking action. Unfortunately children is one of the biggest ones. I encourage everyone who had used their kids as an excuse not to tackle a renovation to think again. Don’t let it stop you. It is so good for you and for your children. But do it in the right way. The safe way. Set some ground rules and some boundaries and you and they will have a ball.

Oh and as an aside, those of you who have used being pregnant as an excuse, forget that too ! Providing you are healthy, there is absolutely no reason why you can’t renovate a property. My wife was 34 weeks pregnant with our 3^rd child when we took off to Port Pirie to complete a renovation. It was expensive though…we had to hire a spa suite (I think it might be the only spa in Pirie !) to ease her aching joints at the end of the day. Actually I’m stopping on this particular subject before I dig a big hole for myself.

We have recently renovated 2 properties with 3 kids, aged 5, 3 and 2. One of them we were living in at the time and one was on the other side of town. For the property on the other side of town, we were on site with the kids every day for 5 weeks (in the middle of Winter !) and for the other renovation, well were living there at the time so they were effectively there all the time ! This one took approximately 10 weeks.

Setting some ground rules is probably the first thing to do. Make some areas ‘No Go’ zones and others ‘Safe’ zones. The safe zones can be used for extended periods if your child needs to sleep, watch a DVD (laptops are great for sticking on a DVD if they just need to chill out for while) or play with some toys. Safe zones can be anywhere. Our last safe zone was the shed in the backyard. We lucked it with that renovation as the shed was FULL of kids toys, most of which we threw in the skip, but the remainder were played with! We had a mattress, toys, books, paper, textas, pencils etc. Most meals were also eaten in this area. ‘No Go’ zones are important for your child’s safety. The problem we had was that our two youngest children were too young to understand where they can and cannot go. It was therefore our responsibility to keep them out of these areas while work was being done, so effectively one of us became a babysitter, completing safer tasks where it was safe for kids like tidying up the gardens or driving around sourcing materials.

Another method we use to keep them safe is to get them to help you. Get them to follow you around and give you a hand. They can hold things, help you carry things, mix things, pass you tools, you can pass them tools, they can dig holes (little ones – and often in the wrong spot), sweep (usually the piles that you’ve already done), carry wood (small bits!). The list is endless. The important thing is to keep them busy and attentive with what you are doing. Some times are easier than others but if you are patient, it’s a really valuable experience. My 2 year old daughter keeps the older two away from the power tools, telling them to stay away because they are noisy. My 3 year old son knows lots of different types of tools and what they are used for. He knows what happens next in the process and often tells me what to do. “Hurry up and get that door on”, “Why haven’t you put the ceiling back yet ?”, “Where has the painter man gone ?”. I swear he will have his builders license before his 5^th birthday !

My youngest daughter a couple of months ago sat and watched my wife tiling for about 3 hours. Asking sooooo many questions, it was great (well, maybe not so great after 3 hours). A couple of weeks later I must confess I left some tile glue out under the carport and found the youngest two doing some mixing and tiling on the carport floor. What a mess !  But they were having a go and having fun and learning…..It was nothing a shower couldn’t fix !

The most important thing is to be flexible and work things out as you go. If something is not working, do it another way. Take it in turns being the adult keeping an eye on the kids, but give them some freedom to have a go. Have patience, try not to yell TOO loud when they draw on the kitchen wall days after it has been freshly painted. When they do, because they will do, just show them how to clean it off. That keeps them busy for a while longer !

To be honest, there actually is not much more to say about renovating with kids. It’s not that hard. You work it out as you go. They learn a lot by simply being on site. Everyone has fun and simply has a great time. I have enclosed a few photos of the type of fun the kids get up to, playing in the mud (the yellow line in the photo is actually a string line for a picket fence, just so you know I wasn’t playing in the mud as well !), throwing rocks at each other before they get spread on the driveway, concreting. The list goes on !

Have a go, you will have a ball.

Tim Ellis
Property Investor

This post is from the Talking Property Podcast

Renovating with Children

It’s Debbie back again ready to share the next part of the journey. As mentioned before, this renovation is a big job.

I’ll begin to address some of the issues we came across, it may take a few episodes to tell you all about it but stay tuned and we will not disappoint! 

Budget & Timeframe

This property was purchased with the strategy to renovate and sell.

Since we settled the property with private funds, the plan was to get the renovation completed within 3 months; market for about 6 weeks and settlement another 6 weeks.

Trouble with renovations, particularly on really old places is that when things go wrong they can go really wrong.

Time has already blown out, firstly with sewer issues, then electricity relocation and lastly the weather!

With any time blow out it is usually associated with costs blowing out.

Our budget for the renovation is $80,000. We set it high so it would cover problems – and we certainly have come across our fair share. So far the budget is not compromised but since it compounds exponentially, we have yet to see where it will end. In saying that though, I have done enough to know we will be pretty close and any blow out will be minor.

Sewer & Power Connections

One of the first major obstacles that faced us was the lack of accurate SA Water/Sewer plans. The house next door (the other duplex) had substantial work completed sometime previously but was not documented and the plans we were working from had the sewer coming through from next door into our yard (under the wet areas) and sharing a connection to the rear of our property. This meant we could not just go and dig it up, new connections were required to the property next door and SA Water was called upon to provide a new connection. That meant agreement from the owner that they would pay for the new connection, also the tenant was going to be inconvenienced by the process.

The major issue with all that was the time frame. SA Water took 2 months to do the new connection. Since we were laying new floors we could not commence preparation on that until the new connection was in place.

The same issue and same time delay came up with the power.

Plans

When we are planning jobs, a lot of attention goes into how the layout will flow after the job is done. That can mean relocating wet areas and kitchens, bedrooms and lounges. When we purchased the property it was sold as a 1 bedroom duplex, but in reality it was easily converted into 2 bedrooms.

Since we work within the existing structure and the wet areas were at the rear, we decided to swap them with the kitchen. Initially we were going to have the house flow (from the front door): Into the hall, bed 1 on left, bed 2 on left, bathroom, laundry, open plan living (kitchen/dining/lounge). The cost of doing this was going to be high so we rearranged the flow to: Bed 1, Bed 2, Lounge, create a small hall into the bathroom, open up into the kitchen/dining and have the laundry in a cupboard in the kitchen area. Best part of this was creating an outdoor living area off the dining – indoor/outdoor area with large patio doors.

This reduced our costs by about $15,000 even after we spent $5,000 on doors.

Salt Damp

On initial inspection the property looked like it had a lot of salt damp, but after consultation we discovered that this issue was old cement. Apparently cement has a life of around 100 years and of course with the property being built in 1880, the 100 year time frame is well and truly up. Since this comment came from a number of different sources, the credibility stands up. When some of the walls were checked they did not appear to be damp either which also supported the theory.

That’s not to say the property didn’t have salt damp because there were places where it was obvious. It’s pretty incredible that sometime in the past the floor boards were probably damaged by white ants so someone filled the whole room with dirt followed by a thin layer of concrete. By the time we purchased the property the concrete layer was damaged substantially and each of the walls in contact with the dirt had massive salt damp issues.

The salt damp was treated by a professional company.

The crumbling cement needed to be replaced so we enlisted the services of a renderer who has experience with restoration. He has been able to build up the stone wall on the front of the building as well as fix up the plaster inside. Usually plasterers charge a large fee as they are in high demand but I managed to find someone who had decided to get out of the business and just works small jobs after hours.

Even though this is not often ideal, it seems to be working out fine. The tradesman works nights and comes to us straight from his other job, usually about 8.30 am and works for a few hours a day (when the weather is fine). I think he has bought a lot of bad weather with him though so work has been rather slow.

I’ll leave the renovation there now, and follow it up again in a week or two. I’d love to hear your feedback.

This post is from the Talking Property Podcast

Real Reno Series – Bowden Part 2 The Renovation Begins

This entry was kindly contributed by a member of the Talking Property community. If you are interested in contributing an article that would be of interest to our readers then please contact us.

Do quality tradespeople exist?

This is the question often on everybody’s mind when sitting around home or an investment property, waiting for a tradie to show up to complete some work or complete a quote. Often you’ll get the “I’ll be there between 9 and 5” only have to have them call at 4.30 pm and tell you they can’t make it that day!

Something I always do nowadays is after I have organised a time with them, I will just ask in a light hearted way “Are you going to show up ?”! They can’t commit to a specific time because they probably can’t manage their own time. Often they advise they will call you 30 mins before they arrive (can they only manage their time effectively 30 mins in advance?) The phone call rarely occurs and you are left spending the day waiting for someone who may not even come. Avoid these types wherever possible. If they can’t commit to a time, don’t use them. Our time is too valuable to sit around waiting for others.

So when the tradie does arrive and sees the property and what might be involved, how do you know they actually want the work ? You see if they don’t want the work, they probably won’t do a quality job.  Just ask them  “Do you want the job?” You will be surprised how many tradespeople will say they don’t particularly want to do the job. The reason they don’t want the work is more than likely because they find it difficult. In my book, this means they are either inexperienced at that particular task, they don’t know how to do it at all, or they are experienced but just have poor skills. If you use them you will most likely get poor quality work.

If they indicate to you they want the work, how do you know if they are any good ? The fact they want the work could indicate they like the work and are good at it. It could also mean they they have no other work because no-one wants them. Ask them how busy they are. Often good tradies have 3 to 4 weeks work booked up. If they indicate they could start tomorrow, this might not be a good thing. How busy they are will give you a good indication of the level of demand they are in and the quality of their work. Another strategy I use is to just ask them “Are you any good at your trade ?” If they are, they will have references you can contact, maybe a website where you can view photos of completed jobs and see the quality of the work they can achieve.

Asking for references is something I always do now, after being burnt a number of times by tradies who at first appeared professional friendly people, only to end up causing more problems. Even contacting references can’t always guarantee a good tradie. If you are really pedantic, you could visit the reference’s property and view the work yourself. This way, you have seen the evidence first hand.

The amount a tradie charges can be a good way to gauge the quality of their work. However this is not always the case. For example, one floor sander we use is one of the cheapest around and does an absolutely brilliant job. He takes his time, is honest and very reliable. On the other end of the scale we have used a general handyman who was quite expensive (who was also a fully licensed builder). They installed some French doors for us, leaving me with a days work afterwards to ‘reinstall’ them properly. The overall quality of the installation was extremely poor and I would suggest he probably sent away for his builders license from the back of a Corn Flakes box. Even when he was doing the job, he was asking me for advice ! I had to lend him my tools, show him the proper size screws to match the wall plugs he was using and show him how to install a deadlock after he pretty much stuffed the brand new door. He won’t be getting any more work from us !

Then there was another floor sander we used who came, did the job, was paid and then left, never to be seen and never to be contacted again. He went into hiding. I think he must have had friends in the some kind of underground society that helps to hide bad tradies from their dissatisfied customers. I think he sanded the floor with bricks. It was in better condition before he started !

Anyway back to the topic of finding good tradies. I must say from all my experience with all types of tradies, whether they be general builders, electricians, carpet layers, tilers, pavers, plumbers. The only way to give you the best chance of finding a good tradie is by referral. Word of mouth is the best way. Good tradies rarely advertise, so you may not even find them in the yellow pages. Ask around, you will be sure to find someone. At least, you will know who not to use ! A word of warning though, sometimes a referral from a friend could end up being the worst tradie on the planet, or one person’s experience could be completely different from your experience. Don’t hold it against your friend !

When we have found a good tradie, how do we keep them on good terms ? The answer is to pay them on time. Pay them as soon as the job is completed. We have an electrician we use all the time and make a point of paying him on the day. When he gets a call from us, he is usually there within a day or two. He knows he will be paid. Tradies are not in it for the love of climbing through rooves. They are in it for the money. If they have a choice between a job they know they will be paid for today and a job for someone who takes a week to pay, they will be there for you every time.

Anyway, I am sure that everyone has both some horror stories and some great tradespeople who they treasure and want to keep forever. Tell everyone about the good ones and the bad ones. The world will be a better place…..

Happy investing,

Tim Ellis
Property Investor

This post is from the Talking Property Podcast

Do quality tradespeople exist?

I thought I would share our latest renovation project with you. I have to say “latest” quickly because we have another property settling in a couple of weeks.

My husband Chris and I will jointly manage this project. Seems like we have very different ways of going about the same business – so better let him do it his way and I do it my way.

Just shows that two people who live in the same house don’t even renovate the same way – so when someone tells you they can teach you how, they can only really provide the basics – which provide a platform for you to develop your own renovating style.

This renovation is not one we would have started out with, it is a big project. The property had not been touched in many years, had salt damp, practically no power, had chunks falling off it (render), the roof was leaking, no kitchen, no bathroom and the toilet was in the back corner as an outhouse. Not only that, even though there is rear lane access, it is completely overgrown.

The property was found online on www.realestate.com.au and was being marketed at $260,000. This was a great price for the area – Bowden (5009) in SA. It’s only about 2km from the city amongst a massive redevelopment area known as Bowden Village. Not that I was actively looking there – but the price was caught my eye and the area was good.

I was happy to either sell the property after the renovation for cash flow – or keep it for capital growth. There would be great gains in both areas.  I contracted the property for $241K, knowing the resale on the property to be around $400K. I have budgeted $80K for settling costs – including Stamp Duty and the complete renovation works. The profit is set to be at least $60K after all incidental costs – including selling and loan repayments.

The property was purchased while in probate – which meant the settlement date was flexible.  I am sure we could have got early entry – but due to other work commitments we chose not to. We often get early entry on properties, but if there is ever any doubt about the property deal then spending money prior to purchase is not a good idea.

So we sat and waited – giving us plenty of time to prepare. I think preparation is very important in keeping a project moving along smoothly. Leave everything to the last minute and you end up with chaos!

Of course, when purchasing a new property one of the first things we do is apply for finance. This time we put in the application to one of the Big 4. We have used Lo-Doc loans for a very long time – and we were aware that the banks had recently decided that they were only offering Lo-Doc loans to trusts or individuals, not companies. So, we put the application in under a trust.

Well, blow me down but the policy had just been changed again to no longer lend to trusts either! Fortunately I had put the property purchase in my own name “Debbie Williams and or Nominee/s” which enabled me to nominate the purchaser – who now ended up being me. So, we resubmitted the loan application in my name.

All was going well until the valuer came out to the property. I met him on site and went through our vision and explained how we renovated many properties before and were well qualified to do this one. He explained that now not only were the banks assessing the property itself but the ability and knowledge of the purchaser to complete the renovation work. Imagine my surprise when our loan was rejected! Maybe they thought we didn’t have enough experience. I’m laughing as I say this because it has been our primary source of income since 2001!

This left us due to settle the property without an approved loan… This can be a stressful situation, but in reality it is a time for creativity and ingenuity to kick in. As I say, if you want nice and safe, go and get a job!

I decided to go with a private lender who lends 1^st mortgage funds. Private lenders typically only lend 70% – but this is the percentage of the valuation, not the purchase price. There have been times in the past when 70% of the valuation has provided me with more than 80% of the purchase price – but not this time.

The great thing about private lenders is they can make things happen very quickly. We had the property settled 1 week later. I am paying a higher interest rate of 9.5% per annum – but with no loan break fees. Private lenders typically want you to pay them back – so this makes having an exit strategy is very important. In this case we are only using the funds for 6 months – which is plenty of time to renovate, sell and settle a property.

Next time I will tell you what happened when we got into the disaster zone!

This post is from the Talking Property Podcast

Real Reno Series – Bowden Part 1 Purchase through to Settlement

If you haven’t already done so, be sure to check out Debbie’s article “Choosing the right property to renovate” in the new issue of Your Investment Property magazine.

The article is a very comprehensive account of how Debbie tackles property renovations– including how she finds potential projects, information on financing, costings and profit calculations – and many more insider tips from someone with a lot of experience in this area.

Where’s my free renovation teleseminar MP3 download?

We’ve had a few questions from people who have read the YIP article and are looking for their free download from this website.

To get your free MP3 download of Debbie’s recent Renovate for Profit Teleseminar simply enter your first name and email address in the form on the right hand side of this web page and follow the instructions.
It’s quick and painless – within a couple of minutes you’ll have the MP3 and full transcript PDF downloaded to your computer.

Where’s the property investment podcast?

Apologies to everyone who’s been waiting for the Talking Property podcasts to be posted. We’re in the final stages of getting the podcast up and running – the first episodes will be available within the next few days.

We’ve already got some great interviews “in the can” – so stay tuned.

The easiest way to automatically get new podcast MP3’s delivered to your computer or IPod is to subscribe to our podcast feed. To do that, click on the big orange RSS button at the top of this page and follow the instructions. And remember – the podcast is completely FREE.

Nathan Curtis

This post is from the Talking Property Podcast

Debbie’s new renovation article in Your Investment Property

Here’s a video in which Debbie shares a very cool technique for finding potential renovation projects.

Debbie shows us how to set up alerts on realestate.com.au and — more importantly — the exact search criteria she uses for finding the majority of her property renovation projects.

Debbie then goes on to explain what to do once you have found a potential project.

Click the play button to start the video (it may take a few seconds for the video to start).

Or download the video by right clicking this link and choosing “Save Target As…”  – Video Download Link

Debbie and I welcome your comments and questions about this video. Please post a comment below and we will do our best to answer it.

This post is from the Talking Property Podcast

How to find potential renovation projects